In this episode of Generative Engine Optimization in the AI Era: Decoding SEO 2.0, Gail Gould and Guy Gould dive into a foundational shift that’s redefining how experts get discovered: the rise of AI-curated “best-of” lists.

This isn’t traditional SEO anymore. It’s not about ranking your website for a handful of keywords. It’s about teaching machines like Google’s AI Mode and ChatGPT that you are the go-to expert in your space—so that when someone asks, “Who’s the best in this industry?”, your name is the one that shows up.

Gail and Guy break down how Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy) ran real-world tests inside Google’s AI results and uncovered something game-changing:

• The AI pulled from 70 to 80 sources across the web—not just a single site
• Jason and Kalicube topped both AI-generated lists, dominating not just for their brand, but for the term itself
• It wasn’t luck—it was the result of a deliberate strategy built around credibility, consistency, and a whole new kind of visibility

If you’re serious about becoming the trusted authority in your niche—whether you’re a founder, marketer, consultant, or CEO—this episode is your playbook. You’ll learn:

• Why your own website is no longer enough to win trust from AI
• How to earn top placement in “best-of” lists generated by Google Gemini and ChatGPT
• Why third-party validation is now mandatory for brand authority
• What it really takes to build the kind of digital reputation AI respects and reflects
• Why SEO 2.0 is all about ecosystem-wide credibility—not shortcuts or quick wins

To rise to the top today, you don’t just need to be the expert. You need to be recognized as the expert—by algorithms. That recognition is built, not bought.

This episode is proudly sponsored by Three Steps Digital Brand Management, a Kalicube Certified Agency.

This conversation is based on this video by Jason Barnard ⁠Generative Engine Optimization is Here — And I’m Winning It: Dominating AI-Powered ‘Best of’ Lists

Transcript from How to Rank #1 as The Thought Leader in Your Industry on Google and ChatGPT

[0:00] Gail Goole here, and you are listening to Generative Engine Optimization in the AI era, Decoding SEO 2.0. I’m Guy Goole. Welcome to the show proudly sponsored by Three Steps Digital Brand Management, a Kalicube certified agency. Oh, Guy, I am bubbling with excitement because today we are going to dive right in and decode something truly foundational. Absolutely, Gail. Let’s do it. We’re diving into how this explosion of AI in search results, it’s not just a facelift for the page. No, not at all. It’s really shifting how you build visibility completely. Right. It’s moving away from, you know, just ranking for keywords towards actually establishing yourself, your brand as a recognized expert. Especially if you want to be in those like best of conversations online. Exactly. And this is basically SEO 2.0 or as we’re calling it, generative engine optimization. Okay. So to really get into this, we’re looking at some fascinating work by Jason Barnard. He’s been digging into Google’s AI mode. Yeah, he ran a couple of really interesting searches just to see how this AI stuff actually behaves in the wild. So first up, he searched specifically in that AI mode for top experts in search and AI for personal brands. Quite specific. Very specific. He wanted to see how the AI would answer that. And the result, well, they’re pretty eye-opening. Uh-huh. What did it show you? The list the AI came back with, it had Jason Barnard and Kalicube right at the very top, like dominating the answer. Wow.

[1:29] Okay. But the really insightful part, Gail, based on what he found, is how the AI decided that. Right. It wasn’t just like one source. Not at all. For that single question, the AI mode apparently researched, what was it, around 70? It’d be 74 different websites. 70 to 74 sites. Just to figure out who the experts were, that’s deep.

[1:50] It really is. It’s not a quick keyword match, you know, proper research. Okay, building on that, Jason did another search, this time for the term we’re focusing on today. Ah, generative engine optimization. Exactly. Our core topic. Don’t keep us in suspense, Gail. Well, incredibly, the AI, again, put Jason Barnard right at the top of the list it generated. No way for that term, too. Yep. Which just goes to show, well, it shows this is generative engine optimization in the AI era, decoding SEO 2.0. Huh.

[2:19] Perfect timing. And what’s really telling about this search, the second one, the AI apparently researched even more sites.

[2:27] Oh, how many this time? The number was around 80 sources. 80. Wow. Okay, Guy, let’s break this down. What does this really mean for you, our listener? Well, it means if your goal, your aim is to be seen as a leader, you know, the best expert, the top provider, the number one brand. Then you absolutely have to grasp this shift. It’s fundamental. Right. These AI search modes, they’re doing serious homework. They’re looking across like potentially dozens, maybe 80 or more sites. To figure out who belongs on those lists. Yeah. Your own website is just not

[2:56] enough anymore. It’s only one piece of a much bigger puzzle. Exactly, Gail. So getting onto these AI generated lists and yeah, ideally getting to the top, that is the new goal. That’s SEO 2.0. It’s about having your expertise, your authority, genuinely reflected back by lots of different independent sources across the web, which really highlights a key point, doesn’t it? It does. Those short-term tricks, maybe they give you a little bump in old-style rankings for a bit. Yeah, fleetingly perhaps. Yeah. But consistently showing up high in these AI lists. That takes real ongoing effort. You have to build that genuine recognition. Demonstrate your expertise everywhere, consistently. Basically, you need to earn that top spot.

[3:35] Truly deserve it based on how the wider web actually sees you. The AI is reflecting that consensus. And it’s interesting, Guy, that the AI seems to pull info from independent sites right alongside recognized entities like, well, CaliCube. Yeah, it weaves them together.

[3:51] It really underlines that you need that diverse third-party validation. It’s critical. So the big challenge for everyone listening becomes, how do you make sure those 80-odd sites the AI is checking out, how do you ensure they’re saying good things about you? Hmm.

[4:04] That’s the million-dollar question, isn’t it? A brilliant thought to leave people chewing on. We dived decoded and deciphered seo two point please for turg oh thanks to our sponsor three steps digital brand management and thank you for listening see you next time for another new necessary nugget of knowledge.